Carbondale's panhandling ordinance may not stand up to a 1st amendment challenge, should another chose to bring one against it. Courts are showing a track record of throwing out ordinances forbidding panhandling .
Showing posts with label panhandling. Show all posts
Showing posts with label panhandling. Show all posts
Wednesday, April 13, 2016
Tuesday, July 21, 2015
Panhandlers
Not certain if policing got more aggressive or the pulling down of the Unicity Motel deprived them of a place to stay but I see we have not had any panhandlers in the Giant City Road area this year. Last year, I recall seeing at least three out in the area ever afternoon but this year, nothing.
Tuesday, February 10, 2015
Panhandlers
I really wish the Chamber of Commerce would shift its focus from the panhandlers out by Giant City Road and Wal-mart to those that work around the town square. The Giant City road folks are passive, they sit there with a sign and motorists can choose or not to give money as they wish.
The town square panhandlers are much more aggressive. As I have a business in the area and walk around it frequently, I get asked for money a couple of times a month. However, this past weekend, I saw a couple of them acting fairly pushy. One latched onto a small group walking from The Cellar, following them north across the parking lot until finally one of the group handed him some money. The other was the guy who rides his bike around downtown asking for money. He biked in alongside a pickup that had just parked and blocked the driver's exit with his bike while he asked for spare change.
If you want to stand around downtown with a cup and a can, that's fine. Much like out on Giant City, people can then choose to give or not. But having someone getting in your face asking for money will make them think twice about coming downtown to eat next time, choosing places like Chili's, Buffalo Wild Wings or Fat Bottom Betty's instead. Even just increasing foot police presence in downtown, instead of sitting in a car in the parking lot at the corner of Illinois and College, would help.
The town square panhandlers are much more aggressive. As I have a business in the area and walk around it frequently, I get asked for money a couple of times a month. However, this past weekend, I saw a couple of them acting fairly pushy. One latched onto a small group walking from The Cellar, following them north across the parking lot until finally one of the group handed him some money. The other was the guy who rides his bike around downtown asking for money. He biked in alongside a pickup that had just parked and blocked the driver's exit with his bike while he asked for spare change.
If you want to stand around downtown with a cup and a can, that's fine. Much like out on Giant City, people can then choose to give or not. But having someone getting in your face asking for money will make them think twice about coming downtown to eat next time, choosing places like Chili's, Buffalo Wild Wings or Fat Bottom Betty's instead. Even just increasing foot police presence in downtown, instead of sitting in a car in the parking lot at the corner of Illinois and College, would help.
Thursday, October 23, 2014
Chamber Getting Testy About Panhandlers
The Chamber of Commerce wants the city to start cracking down on the 'passive' panhandlers that operate on the east side of town, notably those that trade shifts near the intersection of 13 and Giant City Road and hold signs asking for help (I am always amused by the "Help Wanted" sign on the Burger King less than 50 yards away. I have heard that the Burger King manager has offered assorted panhandlers work and gotten turned down). Here's the press release the Chamber sent out yesterday:
The Chamber’s Board of Directors last week approved a resolution calling on the council to control or restrict panhandling and similar activities, especially on the community’s east side. The resolution has been sent individually to each member of the Council, Chamber Executive Director Les O’Dell said. The Chamber resolution includes nine suggested actions.
The Chamber’s Board of Directors last week approved a resolution calling on the council to control or restrict panhandling and similar activities, especially on the community’s east side. The resolution has been sent individually to each member of the Council, Chamber Executive Director Les O’Dell said. The Chamber resolution includes nine suggested actions.
“These bullet points are simple changes to the code or examples of
steps other communities have taken to combat this problem,” O’Dell said.
“Our goal is not to infringe on anyone’s personal rights, but it is to
improve the appeal of Carbondale as a great place to shop, dine, attend
school and live.”
In presenting the resolution, the Chamber said the presence of
individuals holding signs which state a need for help is a safety
concern, especially in high traffic areas.
The Chamber was partially responsible for a change in city ordinance
several years ago dealing with aggressive panhandling. The new
resolution looks to further regulate both aggressive and passive
panhandling. Suggestions from the resolution include requiring
panhandlers to obtain a free, city-issued license; treat panhandlers as
solicitors; requiring them to wear reflective vests; increasing the
minimum distance a panhandler can be from an automated teller machine
and prohibiting panhandlers from making fraudulent statements.
The full resolution:
We,
the Government Affairs Committee and the Board of Directors of the
Carbondale Chamber of Commerce, representing more than 400 businesses
and organizations in our community, urge the Carbondale City Council to
consider one or more revisions to the Carbondale revised city code to
address the growing and on-going problem with panhandlers, particularly
those frequenting the retail sector of the city’s east side.
We
feel that the presence of these “sign-holders,” while currently legal,
is a source of an unnecessary blight to our community, especially the
restaurants, retailers and other businesses in this area. The presence
of these individuals--many of whom have unpaid citations with the City
and lengthy criminal histories--is distracting to motorists (a very
serious safety concern at extremely busy intersections). Additionally,
their presence negatively impacts the appeal of businesses in this area,
potentially reducing customer visits, revenue for these business and
ultimately revenue to the City of Carbondale in the form of city sales
tax. Furthermore, the presence of these individuals may cause
prospective Southern Illinois University students and their families to
view our community as unsafe, leading them to enroll in other
institutions.
We urge
the Carbondale City Council to take action to control or restrict these
panhandling activities. Our research has led us to several options
worthy of consideration:
· Amend
Section 14-4-10 of the Carbondale City Code to change the definition of
panhandling to include both “passive” and “active” (or “aggressive”)
panhandling.
· Creation of “Demonstration-Free Zones” in the business-oriented parts of the community.
· Treatment
of panhandlers as solicitors, requiring a city permit. Such a permit
could be free of cost, requiring only registration with the city.
Permits could be pending a criminal background check and would not be
issued if the requestor has any outstanding financial balances with the
city. Fingerprinting also may be a requirement.
· Make licenses/permits expire within 90 days and/or make such permits revocable.
· Make panhandlers subject to Section 5-5B of the city code pertaining to solicitors.
· Require
panhandlers to wear a photo ID (or permit) at all times. The reverse of
the permit could include a list of charitable services available to
those truly in need.
· Because
these individuals are standing along busy roadways and at busy
intersections, require them to wear fluorescent safety vests.
· Prohibit
these individuals from knowingly making any fraudulent or misleading
representations (by any means) including, but not limited to falsely
stating that the solicitor is from out of town and stranded, falsely
that he or she is or was a member of the armed forces; stating falsely
that the solicitor is homeless or falsely stating that they are seeking
money for charitable purposes.
· Prohibiting
solicitation within 1,000 feet of a bank, financial institution, ATM,
playground, school, retail shopping facility or restaurant.
On
behalf of our member-businesses and their customers we encourage you to
address this issue and look forward to working with you to make
Carbondale a more attractive community for business.
Wednesday, December 12, 2012
City Council Meeting
Last night's City Council meeting got rolling fairly late last night. I didn't turn on the television to watch until after 8 and the public hearings regarding establishment of the two new TIF districts were still going on.
Given that I had been told during earlier in the day that there was no opposition to establishing either TIF district (incidentally, it rather surprised me to hear both Mayor Fritzler and City Manager Kevin Baity refer to the two TIF districts as established rather than proposed in their State of the City speeches. Neither has been approved by council yet, hence tonight's hearings), the number of people who rose to speak against TIF district #3, encompassing the old school complex, the National Guard Armory and the stretch of Oakland between the two, surprised me. Almost all were concerned with business encroaching into what is currently an area zoned for residential use. Baity pointed out the area would have to be rezoned in order for a purchaser to make any business use of the properties.
This, of course, leads to two quetsions:
1. Why is Oakland Avenue Auto Repair still operating in an area zoned for residential use?
2. What use could any purchaser make of either the Armory or high school buildings unless they are rezoned or granted a special use exemption? Neither is suitable for residential use as they stand.
The proposal to move appointment of the city clerk back under the city manager passed with only one vote against it. The major concern appeared that the clerk's position was important enough that the holder of the position should come directly under council control. However, the rest of the council did not share the same concerns.
The request for more funds for the Convention and Tourism Bureau passed without any controversy. Since I sit on the CCTB board, I will pass on making any further comments.
Next up was a revision to Carbondale's panhandling ordinance banning unlawful panhandling on an business zoned property or any public property. Two groups spoke regarding the ordinance. One, business owners and organizations representing them argued that aggressive panhandlers affected business, disturbed customers and made employees feel unsafe. The other, community organizers and activists, argued that the ordinance would made it harder for the homeless and others living in poverty to get money for food and shelter. Councilman Don Monty pointed out that the ordinance had no effect upon those who stood on a corner with a sign asking for donations, it was aimed at those who asked for money multiple times after being rebuffed originally. If memory serves, I believe this passed, after lots of discussion, six to one.
During the discussion, it gradually became apparent that there are only about a dozen or so panhandlers in Carbondale that engage in the aggressive panhandling that disturbs businesses. A reading of the relevant ordinance indicates that aggressive panhandling of the type described during the discussion is already illegal throughout the city, so it's not apparent what effect specifying more places where one cannot unlawfully panhandle will have, since according to the current ordinance, they can't do it already. Seems to me it would be better to enforce the current ordinance against the dozen or so abusers rather than add on to the code.
If electrical aggregation takes place as I understand it from the discussion over the ordinance and we see the savings alluded to by councilmen Chris Wissmann and Don Monty, this should prove a winning proposition for the city and its residents. From what I understand, Carbondale, along with Marion, West Frankfort and other communities, selected Select Energy Partners to negotiate an price for electricity with a supplier. Once a contract is negotiated, Carbondale will have to purchase from that supplier but could choose a different plan than other communities, i.e. Marion could select a plan that draws 10% of its electricity from green sources while Carbondale could choose one that drew 25%. Carbondale residents will have the option to opt out, on an individual basis, of the negotiated contract and remain with their current (or another) provider. This passed unaimously.
Finally, council voted to join the Southern Illinois Municipal Planning Organization, which includes all communities from Carbondale eastward to Marion. The organization will focus on analyzing transportation needs for the area and federal law, dating back to the 1960s, mandates that municipalities must form one once the region's population exceeds 50,000 or forgo federal transportation dollars. Since we don't want to forgo federal transportation dollars, we join, unanimously.
Since it was now 11:30, I decide to skip citizen and council comments, though I did notice council candidates Jessica Bradshaw and Carolin Harvey still in the audience with Pepper Holder approaching the microphone as I left.
Given that I had been told during earlier in the day that there was no opposition to establishing either TIF district (incidentally, it rather surprised me to hear both Mayor Fritzler and City Manager Kevin Baity refer to the two TIF districts as established rather than proposed in their State of the City speeches. Neither has been approved by council yet, hence tonight's hearings), the number of people who rose to speak against TIF district #3, encompassing the old school complex, the National Guard Armory and the stretch of Oakland between the two, surprised me. Almost all were concerned with business encroaching into what is currently an area zoned for residential use. Baity pointed out the area would have to be rezoned in order for a purchaser to make any business use of the properties.
This, of course, leads to two quetsions:
1. Why is Oakland Avenue Auto Repair still operating in an area zoned for residential use?
2. What use could any purchaser make of either the Armory or high school buildings unless they are rezoned or granted a special use exemption? Neither is suitable for residential use as they stand.
The proposal to move appointment of the city clerk back under the city manager passed with only one vote against it. The major concern appeared that the clerk's position was important enough that the holder of the position should come directly under council control. However, the rest of the council did not share the same concerns.
The request for more funds for the Convention and Tourism Bureau passed without any controversy. Since I sit on the CCTB board, I will pass on making any further comments.
Next up was a revision to Carbondale's panhandling ordinance banning unlawful panhandling on an business zoned property or any public property. Two groups spoke regarding the ordinance. One, business owners and organizations representing them argued that aggressive panhandlers affected business, disturbed customers and made employees feel unsafe. The other, community organizers and activists, argued that the ordinance would made it harder for the homeless and others living in poverty to get money for food and shelter. Councilman Don Monty pointed out that the ordinance had no effect upon those who stood on a corner with a sign asking for donations, it was aimed at those who asked for money multiple times after being rebuffed originally. If memory serves, I believe this passed, after lots of discussion, six to one.
During the discussion, it gradually became apparent that there are only about a dozen or so panhandlers in Carbondale that engage in the aggressive panhandling that disturbs businesses. A reading of the relevant ordinance indicates that aggressive panhandling of the type described during the discussion is already illegal throughout the city, so it's not apparent what effect specifying more places where one cannot unlawfully panhandle will have, since according to the current ordinance, they can't do it already. Seems to me it would be better to enforce the current ordinance against the dozen or so abusers rather than add on to the code.
If electrical aggregation takes place as I understand it from the discussion over the ordinance and we see the savings alluded to by councilmen Chris Wissmann and Don Monty, this should prove a winning proposition for the city and its residents. From what I understand, Carbondale, along with Marion, West Frankfort and other communities, selected Select Energy Partners to negotiate an price for electricity with a supplier. Once a contract is negotiated, Carbondale will have to purchase from that supplier but could choose a different plan than other communities, i.e. Marion could select a plan that draws 10% of its electricity from green sources while Carbondale could choose one that drew 25%. Carbondale residents will have the option to opt out, on an individual basis, of the negotiated contract and remain with their current (or another) provider. This passed unaimously.
Finally, council voted to join the Southern Illinois Municipal Planning Organization, which includes all communities from Carbondale eastward to Marion. The organization will focus on analyzing transportation needs for the area and federal law, dating back to the 1960s, mandates that municipalities must form one once the region's population exceeds 50,000 or forgo federal transportation dollars. Since we don't want to forgo federal transportation dollars, we join, unanimously.
Since it was now 11:30, I decide to skip citizen and council comments, though I did notice council candidates Jessica Bradshaw and Carolin Harvey still in the audience with Pepper Holder approaching the microphone as I left.
Monday, December 10, 2012
City Council Meeting
The city council meets tomorrow night with quite a bit on the agenda. First up are public hearings on a pair of proposed TIF Districts, one expanding the current downtown area and the other setting up one encompassing the old high school complex and National Guard Armory on N. Oakland. According to the minutes, council will not vote on these tonight, just hold the hearings. I would expect the Northwest Carbondale Community Organization to have a representative at the meeting, as the proposed N. Oakland TIF brackets Oakland Avenue Auto Repair and would encourage more development in the area. Avery Home Furnishings already uses the National Guard Armory for storage of overstock and I have heard rumors of a RC track coming to the property as well.
Council will have to approve this warrant as well, the largest of payments going to fire and police pensions and the Carbondale Public Library.
The annual report of the Planning Commission makes for some interesting reading. Requests for rezoning and special uses have dropped by half from earlier in the decade. Also, Commission member Navreet Kang, who is seeking a seat on the city council next year, attended only a third of the meetings, while member Carolin Harvey attended all of them.
Also on the agenda is a proposal allowing the City Manager to appoint the City Clerk. For most of the city's history, the mayor appointed the city clerk, with approval by the council in later years. In 2003, council voted to allow the city manger to appoint the city clerk, only to change back in 2008. Now, council wants to again put the clerk under direction of the City Manager, with authority to remove them from the office with approval of the mayor and council.
The Carbondale Convention and Tourism Bureau is requesting additional money from the funds held by the city from the hotel/motel tax Total amount requested is about $188,000.
The Carbondale Chamber of Commerce has asked the city to strengthen its ordinances regarding aggressive panhandling. The ordinance would ban panhandling on a property zoned for business or on public property. Not certain how this would stand up to a freedom of speech challenge. I have had discussions about panhandling with businesses in downtown and the freedom of speech concern has always come up. A couple of months ago, Cape Girardeau's anti-flyering ordinance was overturned on a challenge from the Ku Klux Klan as an infringement on the organization's freedom to communicate its message on unoccupied cars. While not the same as someone walking up and asking you for money on public property, I could certainly see someone making a similar legal argument that the ordinance infringed on their right of free speech.
Finally, we have an ordinance authorizing the city manager to enter into an agreement with with other governing bodies in the region for the purpose of electrical aggregation through Select Energy Partners. This just starts the negotiations so no idea when we might see any results.
Update: Did want to point out, as was noted in an email, that Kang has a new child, which accounts for many of his absences. Prior to this year, his attendance ranged from 75 to 100%
Council will have to approve this warrant as well, the largest of payments going to fire and police pensions and the Carbondale Public Library.
The annual report of the Planning Commission makes for some interesting reading. Requests for rezoning and special uses have dropped by half from earlier in the decade. Also, Commission member Navreet Kang, who is seeking a seat on the city council next year, attended only a third of the meetings, while member Carolin Harvey attended all of them.
Also on the agenda is a proposal allowing the City Manager to appoint the City Clerk. For most of the city's history, the mayor appointed the city clerk, with approval by the council in later years. In 2003, council voted to allow the city manger to appoint the city clerk, only to change back in 2008. Now, council wants to again put the clerk under direction of the City Manager, with authority to remove them from the office with approval of the mayor and council.
The Carbondale Convention and Tourism Bureau is requesting additional money from the funds held by the city from the hotel/motel tax Total amount requested is about $188,000.
The Carbondale Chamber of Commerce has asked the city to strengthen its ordinances regarding aggressive panhandling. The ordinance would ban panhandling on a property zoned for business or on public property. Not certain how this would stand up to a freedom of speech challenge. I have had discussions about panhandling with businesses in downtown and the freedom of speech concern has always come up. A couple of months ago, Cape Girardeau's anti-flyering ordinance was overturned on a challenge from the Ku Klux Klan as an infringement on the organization's freedom to communicate its message on unoccupied cars. While not the same as someone walking up and asking you for money on public property, I could certainly see someone making a similar legal argument that the ordinance infringed on their right of free speech.
Finally, we have an ordinance authorizing the city manager to enter into an agreement with with other governing bodies in the region for the purpose of electrical aggregation through Select Energy Partners. This just starts the negotiations so no idea when we might see any results.
Update: Did want to point out, as was noted in an email, that Kang has a new child, which accounts for many of his absences. Prior to this year, his attendance ranged from 75 to 100%
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